It just looks like ugliness is the point. Grow some fruit trees or community gardens or something so we don’t need to be surrounded by concrete and empty patches of grass.
Have you lived in one or seen one? Ive been raised in one and it was great, we had a park and it still is a peaceful neighborhood. Besides this, commie blocs where supposed to be temporary housing, but theyre still standing today after countless earthquakes and after so many years. It would be amazing if they gave it some maintenance, but thats not ussrs fault that the current government of any post soviet country isnt taking care of peoples houses. Besides this, theres an obvios point fhat people who dont like commie blocs just straight up ignore, these hoese where a massive upgrade to the majority of people at that time, the reason any post soviet country’s house ownership is so high is because of these houses, that is a huge deal and idk why people ignore it so much and just say “theyre ugly”, you might not like how they look on the outside but its just a regular apartment man, i live in the newer apartment now but let me tell ya, the old one is still good, i have more faith that the old one will last longer than this new one, because they skimp out on everything on the new ones, they dont care about safety, they just care about profit
Call me crazy, but I’ve had this thought about a lot of “boring” architecture. Why don’t we just say it’s an open graffiti spot, so that these large boring walls turn into something colorful on the outside? It’s most likely only gonna be as high as you can get a ladder, but I feel that’s better than nothing. Some people will certainly spray profanities on it, but graffiti spots already exist in some recreational areas, and those bits tend to get sprayed over by someone else, whereas more beautiful sections tend to remain far longer without being touched.
When it’s designed for pure efficiency, housing often starts to take on a more prison-like architectural style. After all that’s how they design prisons as well, just on a much more brutal level. It’s good that post-war civilians were saved from homelessness, but it’s not really an architectural style to emulate, and the fact that they’re still around isn’t a virtue in its own right.
I’m not saying the people who live there are in prison, but rather that it’s a bleak and inhumane way to design things. You see the same mindset in the design of many overpriced condo blocks in the US, they just dress it up with bigger windows, as well as kitchen islands, Murphy beds and other glitsy bullshit.
How is it bleak and inhumane to build free, strong, effective houses? HAVE YOU SEEN MODERN APARTMENT BUILDINGS IN USA?! I feel like I’m going crazy. The only people that like those new fuck ugly “mixed use” developments is rich old smarmy people who’s family left their home town 20 years ago. And they have the worst fucking interior taste I’ve ever seen it’s all white and sanitized and they got nothing on the shelves or walls. I don’t wanna hear shit from Americas about “inhumane design.” My house is sided with fucking asbestos.
How is it bleak and inhumane to build free, strong, effective houses?
That is obviously not what is being complained about. The chief complaints are:
Large areas consisting of one or two buildings copied-and-pasted dozens of times.
The area between buildings being more-or-less featureless.
The only people that like those new fuck ugly “mixed use” developments is rich old smarmy people who’s family left their home town 20 years ago.
I’m not sure what you mean by mixed use developments but if you mean this, then you are flat out wrong. Mixed use developments are the cornerstone of the kinds of urbanism that encompass walkable neighbourhoods and the 15 minute city, which is overwhelmingly preferred by the non-car-brained.
And they have the worst fucking interior taste I’ve ever seen…
Not really relevant since interiors can be ugly or not independent of the ugliness of the buildings.
That is the exact type of building I am talking about. I work in one. It was built by a company that is worth over 50 billion dollars. It has not made our city more walkable. It has made our city less affordable, less walkable, and they are building an identical “mixed use” building right across the street from it with competing businesses.
This building I work in used to have a clinic, it failed and is no longer there, a realtor office that failed and is closed, and my own boss tried to expand the restaurant I work in and failed spectacularly and has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own personal money that he is now indebted to (it was probably the dumbest thing my boss could have done but you know business owners)
The Montessori school in this building complex is a private school that costs over 13 thousand dollars for one child K-12.
There is a section of “green space”, in the middle of the parking lot inside that is about 20-30 square feet of grass and about 4 cherry blossom trees. They are quite pretty to look at out the window while I’m working, but I would hardly classify it as an adequate green space.
What you are describing as an effective communal living area for all people (not just the rich) would be a commie bloc. These 5 over 1 buildings are cheap money grabs that do not function correctly, raise rent prices wherever they are placed effectively gentrifying entire neighborhoods, and are meant to serve a rich subset of capitalists thru “rent controlled” apartments that have a minimum wage requirement for you to even apply. That wage requirement is way higher than I make working in the same exact fucking building.
The areas between communist blocks are not “featureless”, and that is a hilarious accusation when trying to defend these money holes of a building. They are literally cheap imitations of commie blocks that are uglier, not made as well, and don’t work as well. These 5 over 1 buildings being “Cornerstone of urbanism” is the best joke I’ve ever heard about American infrastructure. Those pictures in the Wikipedia article you linked are perfect examples, those don’t have ANY green space. I bet for private residents in the back parking lot there’s a few square feet of grass. Is that what you want over this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sídlisko ?
Go and walk down the street in one of these gentrified neighborhoods and see how fun it is, buy a 16$ sandwich and 4$ coffee, have to walk a quarter mile to where you parked and by then your 2 hour limit is up so you got a ticket and now you gotta park where all the homeless people are. (that got pushed out by the development of this multi-million dollar building).
Not really relevant since interiors can be ugly or not independent of the ugliness of the buildings.
I don’t know about you but I actually like hanging out in the cafe to drink my coffee, these are “public spaces” and to you they are cornerstones of urban development, wouldn’t you want people to oh, I don’t know, spend time (and therefor more money) in the business and schools that this company paid millions of dollars for? No? Oh, so we’re only interested in mass housing/ending homelessness when it’s under a capitalist society and you can walk from your apartment to the cafe without going outside. And it has to LOOK SUPER NICE RIGHT AWAY. And we need THE TINIEST GREEN SPACE SURROUNDED BY A PARKING LOT! THATS THE KINDA GREENERY WE LIKEEEEE
You really think these buildings are better than the blocs because what, they look better to you? Solving homelessness isn’t aesthetically pleasing enough? I know a certain GERMAN political party that agrees with your sentiment…
I’m not American, I’m British. Towns and cities all across Europe are filled with “5 over 1s” and similar, and it’s fine, and works well. Just because the US can’t not fuck it up, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for everyone else.
Solving homelessness isn’t aesthetically pleasing enough? I know a certain GERMAN political party that agrees with your sentiment…
Lemmy.ml user try not to accuse another user of being a Nazi for literally no credible reason challenge: impossible.
We’re a discussion about architecture and urban planning, my dude. Commie blocs solved the homelessness relatively quickly and relatively cheaply. Great. Fantastic. That doesn’t they were best and most ideal solution possible at the time, and it certainly doesn’t mean they’re the best and most ideal solution now.
Now, as it stands, I don’t think commie blocks are that bad, I just felt like pointing out that your arguments seemed somewhat unserious, but in case you’re curious, here are the things I think are non-ideal about commie blocks:
People tend to prefer “human scale” architecture in places that are supposed to be comfortable and large clusters of high rise buildings tend to make people feel small.
They require steel and concrete to build, which is a concern in terms of carbon footprint, whereas 5 over 1s and similarly sized buildings can get away with using wooden frame construction.
High rises cost more per occupant to maintain than a similarly constructed mid rise, as a general rule.
The need for access to lighting, etc. means that the buildings must be spaced a fair distance apart, so the effective footprint still ends up being similar to a wider-based mid rise bulding. And while this does allow for green space, it’s green space that has to be kept low (so as not to interfere with the lower floors) and needs constant maintenance, so it tends to be fairly bland.
The physical separation between the blocks and the reliance on public transport to reach facilities tends to promote social isolation in a similar way to suburbs.
High rises mean that the vast majority of the occupants must either rely of lifts (and there are never enough working lifts) or be able-bodied and fit.
If you’re asking me what I’d prefer instead, I’m thinking something like Eixample.
What’s with all the downvotes? Tankies? I live in one, surrounded by more of those blocks and I find it horribly depressing.
Yeah some of them (especially older ones) are nice inside but why is the outside so neglected?
Every square meter is either asphalt, concrete or grass. Nothing grows there and there’s some lawnmower guy who needs to mow it all the fucking time so there’s no quiet during summer
Ok so maybe I wasn’t clear that the housing built in a hurry to house people post war was left to rot and not modernised post 1991 as the soviet union collapsed this was followed by shock therapy and capitalists in power who don’t give a shit thus leaving the modern “commie blocks” in eastern Europe today ugly neglected and rundown.
When OP asked “why is the outside so neglected?” I believe you have interpreted the question as “why has the outside been neglected?” As in, the outside has been allowed to become ugly. What I believe they meant, however, is “why was the outside neglected?” As in, the people who designed it neglected to consider the outside. OP is arguing the blocks were ugly at inception, not just since 1991.
Perhaps but they appear to be talking about the current. Either way, the answer however is largely the same just reframed and rephrased. They were built to be functional and quick to deal with the fact hundreds of thousands if not millions would be homeless if nothing was done due to the destruction of fighting the Nazis. They then were not able to be maintained and modernised post 1991 for the reasons outlined.
It just looks like ugliness is the point. Grow some fruit trees or community gardens or something so we don’t need to be surrounded by concrete and empty patches of grass.
Have you lived in one or seen one? Ive been raised in one and it was great, we had a park and it still is a peaceful neighborhood. Besides this, commie blocs where supposed to be temporary housing, but theyre still standing today after countless earthquakes and after so many years. It would be amazing if they gave it some maintenance, but thats not ussrs fault that the current government of any post soviet country isnt taking care of peoples houses. Besides this, theres an obvios point fhat people who dont like commie blocs just straight up ignore, these hoese where a massive upgrade to the majority of people at that time, the reason any post soviet country’s house ownership is so high is because of these houses, that is a huge deal and idk why people ignore it so much and just say “theyre ugly”, you might not like how they look on the outside but its just a regular apartment man, i live in the newer apartment now but let me tell ya, the old one is still good, i have more faith that the old one will last longer than this new one, because they skimp out on everything on the new ones, they dont care about safety, they just care about profit
Call me crazy, but I’ve had this thought about a lot of “boring” architecture. Why don’t we just say it’s an open graffiti spot, so that these large boring walls turn into something colorful on the outside? It’s most likely only gonna be as high as you can get a ladder, but I feel that’s better than nothing. Some people will certainly spray profanities on it, but graffiti spots already exist in some recreational areas, and those bits tend to get sprayed over by someone else, whereas more beautiful sections tend to remain far longer without being touched.
Everything is better with murals. Also plants, lots of plants.
I don’t care about the graffiti, I wish those ugly walls weren’t visible at all. Give me some green space
Yeah the soviet block housing is architecturally DEPRESSING. Not that they are the only ones who built joyless prison boxes.
You just compared people’s houses to prisons. I hope you didn’t mean it that way.
When it’s designed for pure efficiency, housing often starts to take on a more prison-like architectural style. After all that’s how they design prisons as well, just on a much more brutal level. It’s good that post-war civilians were saved from homelessness, but it’s not really an architectural style to emulate, and the fact that they’re still around isn’t a virtue in its own right.
I’m not saying the people who live there are in prison, but rather that it’s a bleak and inhumane way to design things. You see the same mindset in the design of many overpriced condo blocks in the US, they just dress it up with bigger windows, as well as kitchen islands, Murphy beds and other glitsy bullshit.
How is it bleak and inhumane to build free, strong, effective houses? HAVE YOU SEEN MODERN APARTMENT BUILDINGS IN USA?! I feel like I’m going crazy. The only people that like those new fuck ugly “mixed use” developments is rich old smarmy people who’s family left their home town 20 years ago. And they have the worst fucking interior taste I’ve ever seen it’s all white and sanitized and they got nothing on the shelves or walls. I don’t wanna hear shit from Americas about “inhumane design.” My house is sided with fucking asbestos.
That is obviously not what is being complained about. The chief complaints are:
I’m not sure what you mean by mixed use developments but if you mean this, then you are flat out wrong. Mixed use developments are the cornerstone of the kinds of urbanism that encompass walkable neighbourhoods and the 15 minute city, which is overwhelmingly preferred by the non-car-brained.
Not really relevant since interiors can be ugly or not independent of the ugliness of the buildings.
That is the exact type of building I am talking about. I work in one. It was built by a company that is worth over 50 billion dollars. It has not made our city more walkable. It has made our city less affordable, less walkable, and they are building an identical “mixed use” building right across the street from it with competing businesses.
This building I work in used to have a clinic, it failed and is no longer there, a realtor office that failed and is closed, and my own boss tried to expand the restaurant I work in and failed spectacularly and has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own personal money that he is now indebted to (it was probably the dumbest thing my boss could have done but you know business owners)
The Montessori school in this building complex is a private school that costs over 13 thousand dollars for one child K-12.
There is a section of “green space”, in the middle of the parking lot inside that is about 20-30 square feet of grass and about 4 cherry blossom trees. They are quite pretty to look at out the window while I’m working, but I would hardly classify it as an adequate green space.
What you are describing as an effective communal living area for all people (not just the rich) would be a commie bloc. These 5 over 1 buildings are cheap money grabs that do not function correctly, raise rent prices wherever they are placed effectively gentrifying entire neighborhoods, and are meant to serve a rich subset of capitalists thru “rent controlled” apartments that have a minimum wage requirement for you to even apply. That wage requirement is way higher than I make working in the same exact fucking building.
The areas between communist blocks are not “featureless”, and that is a hilarious accusation when trying to defend these money holes of a building. They are literally cheap imitations of commie blocks that are uglier, not made as well, and don’t work as well. These 5 over 1 buildings being “Cornerstone of urbanism” is the best joke I’ve ever heard about American infrastructure. Those pictures in the Wikipedia article you linked are perfect examples, those don’t have ANY green space. I bet for private residents in the back parking lot there’s a few square feet of grass. Is that what you want over this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sídlisko ?
Go and walk down the street in one of these gentrified neighborhoods and see how fun it is, buy a 16$ sandwich and 4$ coffee, have to walk a quarter mile to where you parked and by then your 2 hour limit is up so you got a ticket and now you gotta park where all the homeless people are. (that got pushed out by the development of this multi-million dollar building).
I don’t know about you but I actually like hanging out in the cafe to drink my coffee, these are “public spaces” and to you they are cornerstones of urban development, wouldn’t you want people to oh, I don’t know, spend time (and therefor more money) in the business and schools that this company paid millions of dollars for? No? Oh, so we’re only interested in mass housing/ending homelessness when it’s under a capitalist society and you can walk from your apartment to the cafe without going outside. And it has to LOOK SUPER NICE RIGHT AWAY. And we need THE TINIEST GREEN SPACE SURROUNDED BY A PARKING LOT! THATS THE KINDA GREENERY WE LIKEEEEE
You really think these buildings are better than the blocs because what, they look better to you? Solving homelessness isn’t aesthetically pleasing enough? I know a certain GERMAN political party that agrees with your sentiment…
I’m not American, I’m British. Towns and cities all across Europe are filled with “5 over 1s” and similar, and it’s fine, and works well. Just because the US can’t not fuck it up, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for everyone else.
Lemmy.ml user try not to accuse another user of being a Nazi for literally no credible reason challenge: impossible.
We’re a discussion about architecture and urban planning, my dude. Commie blocs solved the homelessness relatively quickly and relatively cheaply. Great. Fantastic. That doesn’t they were best and most ideal solution possible at the time, and it certainly doesn’t mean they’re the best and most ideal solution now.
Now, as it stands, I don’t think commie blocks are that bad, I just felt like pointing out that your arguments seemed somewhat unserious, but in case you’re curious, here are the things I think are non-ideal about commie blocks:
If you’re asking me what I’d prefer instead, I’m thinking something like Eixample.
What’s with all the downvotes? Tankies? I live in one, surrounded by more of those blocks and I find it horribly depressing.
Yeah some of them (especially older ones) are nice inside but why is the outside so neglected?
Every square meter is either asphalt, concrete or grass. Nothing grows there and there’s some lawnmower guy who needs to mow it all the fucking time so there’s no quiet during summer
I wonder why the Soviets stopped tending to their infrastructure around 1991 surely nothing happened around that time?!?!
So you think they just came in and bulldozed everything? If they hadn’t done anything since then, it would look nicer
Ok so maybe I wasn’t clear that the housing built in a hurry to house people post war was left to rot and not modernised post 1991 as the soviet union collapsed this was followed by shock therapy and capitalists in power who don’t give a shit thus leaving the modern “commie blocks” in eastern Europe today ugly neglected and rundown.
When OP asked “why is the outside so neglected?” I believe you have interpreted the question as “why has the outside been neglected?” As in, the outside has been allowed to become ugly. What I believe they meant, however, is “why was the outside neglected?” As in, the people who designed it neglected to consider the outside. OP is arguing the blocks were ugly at inception, not just since 1991.
Perhaps but they appear to be talking about the current. Either way, the answer however is largely the same just reframed and rephrased. They were built to be functional and quick to deal with the fact hundreds of thousands if not millions would be homeless if nothing was done due to the destruction of fighting the Nazis. They then were not able to be maintained and modernised post 1991 for the reasons outlined.