You could have just as easily latched onto my mentioning the ethnic cleansing.
I mean, that’s a key trait of the Nazis. I figured it kinda came together, but alright, I could have been a little more specific and brought it up sooner, but I was really hoping today would be the day someone can actually find the Nazi evidence. Besides, if Nazis are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing, it should be trivial to prove there are Nazis, right?
You could have just as easily latched onto the illegal western coup that stole democracy from Ukraine in the first place.
Tried to go down that road with people several times. Never seems to go anywhere. Everybody likes to call it a coup, but nobody can prove it’s anything other than butthurt that Ukraine moved towards the West.
You could have just as easily stayed on the original topic of conversation and responded to the actual fucking point about how the nazi government you love so much took away the mere trappings of democracy in that country.
You mean how elections are suspended because they’re under martial law? As far as I’m concerned, that’s Russia’s fault. Ukraine is already bound by their constitution, and it would be extremely difficult to change in the middle of war. Ukraine’s choice was to either enact martial law and fight back, losing elections temporarily, or submit to Russia and lose Ukrainian elections permanently. If you want them to be able to vote, get pissed at Russia. They’re free to fuck off back to their own land any time they’d like.
That would be too honest and in good faith for trash like you to engage in.
Oh fucking please, your arrogant ass is just trying to cover up the fact you can’t prove a god damn thing. You’re raging over there like a child that refuses to accept their bedtime because you got called on your slop, and since there’s no real defense of it, you gotta go on the offensive on me directly.
You latched onto the existence of the nazi regime because you have practiced being obstinate and intransigent on this subject. You made it absolutely clear that you wouldn’t even engage in this tangent of yours in good faith by bragging about how no one could possibly convince you and refusing to allow a condition up front that would satisfy your requirements for proof.
My guy, you know what evidence people have managed to bring me? A map of monuments in Europe, of which almost none were in Ukraine. A photo of one dude with a blurry patch next to Zelenskyy that they swear is Nazi symbolism if you squint hard enough. A photo of like two dozen dudes in military-ish gear around a flag that, while certainly concerning, is in no way indicative of a systemic problem. A couple more photos of even smaller groups. I’m not being unreasonable for not calling that definitive proof.
I’m not denying there are Nazis in Ukraine entirely, I’m sure there’s at least some just as there are basically everywhere even if the exact flavor if Nazi varies slightly.
Hell, I didn’t even set conditions on proof. I just said nobody can ever find anything that actually proves shit. They wanna show me some of the bullshit I mentioned early that proves nothing other than that Ukrainian Nazis aren’t entirely extinct. Which, for the record, is a shame, they should be.
You’re an intellectual coward. And that’s exactly how a nazi argues by the way.
You wanna talk intellectual cowardice? Let’s look at your personal attacks. Let’s look at how you came unglued on me the instant I actually requested evidence of your assertion of Nazis in complete good faith, I was ready to learn something. Let’s look at how, in spite of all that, in spite of all your rage over these alleged Nazis, you still won’t even try to find a single shred of genuine evidence
And then, because I won’t buy your story at the very first mention of it, because I won’t take the flimsiest of evidence and run with it, I’m an intellectual coward and a Nazi? I’d say you’re a fucking clown, but frankly, that’d be an insult to clowns. You’re full of shit, I know it, you know it, but you just can’t admit it, especially in public. Do yourself a favor and stop replying. You just embarrass yourself acting like a petulant child.
A petulant child gets told to return to the topic and spends multiple pages continuing to whine about how no one engages with your bad faith and declaring victory because your deeply buried post on a week old thread didn’t get any replies
Do you not understand that you’re stupid for this alone?
You mean how elections are suspended because they’re under martial law?
Oh okay. It’s because the military rules the country. That’s why it’s okay to not have democracy anymore.
And in order to keep the country Ukrainian we need to prevent the people who live there from having any say in what “Ukraine” is.
Hell, I didn’t even set conditions on proof. I just said nobody can ever find anything that actually proves shit.
Are you so fucking stupid that you’re bringing up your deliberate bad faith as a POSITIVE???
because your deeply buried post on a week old thread didn’t get any replies
You’re not very good at making assumptions since that’s not it. I’ve only replied asking for evidence to active threads, and I’ve repeatedly gotten responses “attempting” to provide proof. It’s just shit tier proof every single time.
Oh okay. It’s because the military rules the country. That’s why it’s okay to not have democracy anymore.
The military would probably freely give back control if Russia would fuck off back to where they belong. Either way, how exactly do you propose they run the election so that the parts actively being contested by Russia get to vote AND guarantee that Russia, who isn’t even known for election integrity at home, won’t meddle in a foreign election that might get them a submissive leader elected? I’d love to see them have routine elections, and maybe I just haven’t thought it all the way through, but I don’t see how this turns into anything other than either A. An opportunity for Russia to stuff the ballot boxes and force victory by submissive leadership, or B. Disenfranchisement of eastern Ukrainians to protect ballot integrity. I don’t like either option, and I’m guessing you’re extra not fond of option B. Probably pretty keen to let Russia stuff those ballots, though.
And in order to keep the country Ukrainian we need to prevent the people who live there from having any say in what “Ukraine” is.
Almost. To keep it Ukrainian, they need to make sure the active invader with a bad reputation for election integrity doesn’t get a chance to violate the integrity of their election. Since you care so much about their democratic rights, I would think you’d want to be extra sure there wasn’t interference.
Are you so fucking stupid that you’re bringing up your deliberate bad faith as a POSITIVE???
Okay, let me rephrase this on the off chance you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not asking for a super high bar to be cleared. The bar is a tripping hazard in hell, and here you are still trying to limbo dance with the devil. All I want is some evidence that doesn’t show me a tiny fraction and try to make me assume I can extrapolate it to a nation. You know, actual fucking evidence, not a pile of blurry photos with a grand total of 50 people in them, nor a map where none of the fucking points are in Ukraine. I want to see evidence that there are more than 50 Nazis in Ukraine. 50 may still be a lot of Nazis, but it’s not enough to cause the systemic problems people in here like to claim. I am willing to entertain anything you may consider evidence so long as it actually shows a systemic issue. You can decide how to prove that however you want so long as you actually show a systemic issue, not just a handful of raging assholes with a camera and a flag. A few pictures of small groups of Nazis in Ukraine only proves that they are unfortunately not extinct, not that they are the widespread issue you claim they are.
Meanwhile, as I try repeatedly to engage in the topic in good faith, despite your claims to the contrary, you do nothing but belittle and insult me. Rather than turning me to your side, it only further convinces me not only that you are utterly without proof, but that you know the claims you are making cannot be backed by proof. You insult me not because it’s genuinely deserved, but because you’re desperately trying to steer the topic away from the fact that we both know you’re 100% full of shit, at least on the topic of Ukrainian Nazis being the systemic, pervasive issue you claim.
but because you’re desperately trying to steer the topic away
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.
In other words, you can’t really refute a single word I said, so you’re going to imply I’m lying and bounce. This is by far the most vitriol I’ve ever faced for openly being willing to consider fresh evidence and change my perspective, and you’ve made it quite clear you’re not arguing in bad faith. I assume you make the accusation against me purely to muddy the waters and make it seems like a simple “no u!” when you’re inevitably called for it.
I’m not implying you’re lying. I’m saying that you have a shameless sneering indifference to good faith arguing to the point that you could accuse me of avoiding the topic for not engaging with your tangent. You argue like a nazi, which I have commented on repeatedly now, which only makes sense because you are a nazi who defends nazis.
for openly being willing to consider fresh evidence and change my perspective
See? You’re completely aware of the absurdity of your replies. You’re having fun being a snide piece of shit. Exactly how a fucking nazi argues.
Even in the context of the argument you, like an entitled fucking child, demand I engage with instead of the actual topic, you refuse to engage in good faith as I have REPEATEDLY asked you to front load what would qualify as evidence and you have refused. Every time you just point to a strawman and say “That wasn’t enough” and continue on batching for eight paragraphs that no one’s reading.
All of this has been put to you repeatedly. Yet you still argue in smirking bad faith. Piece of shit nazi. Follow your leader.
You’re spending an awful lot of time and effort to talk shit about how I’m allegedly not engaging in good faith, but if these Nazis were rampant enough to be doing everything you’re pinning on them, because recall that you said these things were being done by a Nazi regime, it should be pretty fucking trivial to muster literally anything to support your claims and shut me up. Just one piece of actual genuine evidence that there’s a Nazi regime in Ukraine, and you’d shut the whole thing down. Instead, you’d rather invest all this time to belittle me and pretend I’m not openly presenting an opportunity to change my mind. The best evidence I’ve seen so far is maybe all of 50 dudes around flags in half a dozen photos at most. Given that asking for evidence of Nazis is more likely to see me verbally abused than to see me actually being shown that there are Nazis in Ukraine, I can only assume that some people are very interested in lying about Nazis in Ukraine. Otherwise, if there were genuinely a massive Nazi problem in Ukraine, surely its opponents would be more open to spreading word of the problem.
You’re spending an awful lot of time and effort to talk shit about how I’m allegedly not engaging in good faith, but if these Nazis were rampant enough to be doing everything you’re pinning on them, because recall that you said these things were being done by a Nazi regime, it should be pretty fucking trivial to muster literally anything to support your claims and shut me up.
I mean, that’s a key trait of the Nazis. I figured it kinda came together, but alright, I could have been a little more specific and brought it up sooner, but I was really hoping today would be the day someone can actually find the Nazi evidence. Besides, if Nazis are the ones doing the ethnic cleansing, it should be trivial to prove there are Nazis, right?
Tried to go down that road with people several times. Never seems to go anywhere. Everybody likes to call it a coup, but nobody can prove it’s anything other than butthurt that Ukraine moved towards the West.
You mean how elections are suspended because they’re under martial law? As far as I’m concerned, that’s Russia’s fault. Ukraine is already bound by their constitution, and it would be extremely difficult to change in the middle of war. Ukraine’s choice was to either enact martial law and fight back, losing elections temporarily, or submit to Russia and lose Ukrainian elections permanently. If you want them to be able to vote, get pissed at Russia. They’re free to fuck off back to their own land any time they’d like.
Oh fucking please, your arrogant ass is just trying to cover up the fact you can’t prove a god damn thing. You’re raging over there like a child that refuses to accept their bedtime because you got called on your slop, and since there’s no real defense of it, you gotta go on the offensive on me directly.
My guy, you know what evidence people have managed to bring me? A map of monuments in Europe, of which almost none were in Ukraine. A photo of one dude with a blurry patch next to Zelenskyy that they swear is Nazi symbolism if you squint hard enough. A photo of like two dozen dudes in military-ish gear around a flag that, while certainly concerning, is in no way indicative of a systemic problem. A couple more photos of even smaller groups. I’m not being unreasonable for not calling that definitive proof.
I’m not denying there are Nazis in Ukraine entirely, I’m sure there’s at least some just as there are basically everywhere even if the exact flavor if Nazi varies slightly.
Hell, I didn’t even set conditions on proof. I just said nobody can ever find anything that actually proves shit. They wanna show me some of the bullshit I mentioned early that proves nothing other than that Ukrainian Nazis aren’t entirely extinct. Which, for the record, is a shame, they should be.
You wanna talk intellectual cowardice? Let’s look at your personal attacks. Let’s look at how you came unglued on me the instant I actually requested evidence of your assertion of Nazis in complete good faith, I was ready to learn something. Let’s look at how, in spite of all that, in spite of all your rage over these alleged Nazis, you still won’t even try to find a single shred of genuine evidence
And then, because I won’t buy your story at the very first mention of it, because I won’t take the flimsiest of evidence and run with it, I’m an intellectual coward and a Nazi? I’d say you’re a fucking clown, but frankly, that’d be an insult to clowns. You’re full of shit, I know it, you know it, but you just can’t admit it, especially in public. Do yourself a favor and stop replying. You just embarrass yourself acting like a petulant child.
A petulant child gets told to return to the topic and spends multiple pages continuing to whine about how no one engages with your bad faith and declaring victory because your deeply buried post on a week old thread didn’t get any replies
Do you not understand that you’re stupid for this alone?
Oh okay. It’s because the military rules the country. That’s why it’s okay to not have democracy anymore.
And in order to keep the country Ukrainian we need to prevent the people who live there from having any say in what “Ukraine” is.
Are you so fucking stupid that you’re bringing up your deliberate bad faith as a POSITIVE???
You’re not very good at making assumptions since that’s not it. I’ve only replied asking for evidence to active threads, and I’ve repeatedly gotten responses “attempting” to provide proof. It’s just shit tier proof every single time.
The military would probably freely give back control if Russia would fuck off back to where they belong. Either way, how exactly do you propose they run the election so that the parts actively being contested by Russia get to vote AND guarantee that Russia, who isn’t even known for election integrity at home, won’t meddle in a foreign election that might get them a submissive leader elected? I’d love to see them have routine elections, and maybe I just haven’t thought it all the way through, but I don’t see how this turns into anything other than either A. An opportunity for Russia to stuff the ballot boxes and force victory by submissive leadership, or B. Disenfranchisement of eastern Ukrainians to protect ballot integrity. I don’t like either option, and I’m guessing you’re extra not fond of option B. Probably pretty keen to let Russia stuff those ballots, though.
Almost. To keep it Ukrainian, they need to make sure the active invader with a bad reputation for election integrity doesn’t get a chance to violate the integrity of their election. Since you care so much about their democratic rights, I would think you’d want to be extra sure there wasn’t interference.
Okay, let me rephrase this on the off chance you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not asking for a super high bar to be cleared. The bar is a tripping hazard in hell, and here you are still trying to limbo dance with the devil. All I want is some evidence that doesn’t show me a tiny fraction and try to make me assume I can extrapolate it to a nation. You know, actual fucking evidence, not a pile of blurry photos with a grand total of 50 people in them, nor a map where none of the fucking points are in Ukraine. I want to see evidence that there are more than 50 Nazis in Ukraine. 50 may still be a lot of Nazis, but it’s not enough to cause the systemic problems people in here like to claim. I am willing to entertain anything you may consider evidence so long as it actually shows a systemic issue. You can decide how to prove that however you want so long as you actually show a systemic issue, not just a handful of raging assholes with a camera and a flag. A few pictures of small groups of Nazis in Ukraine only proves that they are unfortunately not extinct, not that they are the widespread issue you claim they are.
Meanwhile, as I try repeatedly to engage in the topic in good faith, despite your claims to the contrary, you do nothing but belittle and insult me. Rather than turning me to your side, it only further convinces me not only that you are utterly without proof, but that you know the claims you are making cannot be backed by proof. You insult me not because it’s genuinely deserved, but because you’re desperately trying to steer the topic away from the fact that we both know you’re 100% full of shit, at least on the topic of Ukrainian Nazis being the systemic, pervasive issue you claim.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.
In other words, you can’t really refute a single word I said, so you’re going to imply I’m lying and bounce. This is by far the most vitriol I’ve ever faced for openly being willing to consider fresh evidence and change my perspective, and you’ve made it quite clear you’re not arguing in bad faith. I assume you make the accusation against me purely to muddy the waters and make it seems like a simple “no u!” when you’re inevitably called for it.
I’m not implying you’re lying. I’m saying that you have a shameless sneering indifference to good faith arguing to the point that you could accuse me of avoiding the topic for not engaging with your tangent. You argue like a nazi, which I have commented on repeatedly now, which only makes sense because you are a nazi who defends nazis.
See? You’re completely aware of the absurdity of your replies. You’re having fun being a snide piece of shit. Exactly how a fucking nazi argues.
Even in the context of the argument you, like an entitled fucking child, demand I engage with instead of the actual topic, you refuse to engage in good faith as I have REPEATEDLY asked you to front load what would qualify as evidence and you have refused. Every time you just point to a strawman and say “That wasn’t enough” and continue on batching for eight paragraphs that no one’s reading.
All of this has been put to you repeatedly. Yet you still argue in smirking bad faith. Piece of shit nazi. Follow your leader.
You’re spending an awful lot of time and effort to talk shit about how I’m allegedly not engaging in good faith, but if these Nazis were rampant enough to be doing everything you’re pinning on them, because recall that you said these things were being done by a Nazi regime, it should be pretty fucking trivial to muster literally anything to support your claims and shut me up. Just one piece of actual genuine evidence that there’s a Nazi regime in Ukraine, and you’d shut the whole thing down. Instead, you’d rather invest all this time to belittle me and pretend I’m not openly presenting an opportunity to change my mind. The best evidence I’ve seen so far is maybe all of 50 dudes around flags in half a dozen photos at most. Given that asking for evidence of Nazis is more likely to see me verbally abused than to see me actually being shown that there are Nazis in Ukraine, I can only assume that some people are very interested in lying about Nazis in Ukraine. Otherwise, if there were genuinely a massive Nazi problem in Ukraine, surely its opponents would be more open to spreading word of the problem.
This is one sentence. You are exhausting.
Let me put it more on your level, then.
You spend much time talk shit. Could spend half minute, find proof, shut me up good. If many Nazis doing Nazi things, should be easy.