I am looking for help on how to run closed source / pirated games on linux within a virtual machine. I would like to start by saying if I could walk into a shop and buy with cash, a game on a CD like in the old days I would. I have recently become very privacy conscious and until I figure out a way to anonymously and privately purchase things like this I am going to stick with pirating. Also, it is helping me to archive content as everything seems to be moving online and I want to stick with offline applications / media etc in my control.
Now, I am familiar with virtualbox but of course, it is no good for gaming. I have read about other applications that offer much better performance with support for GPU passthrough or similar (but how does this affect the security side of things when running pirated games). Forgive me, this is all quite new to me.
What I want is a virtual machine capable of gaming so that I can more safely run pirated games on linux. Also, I am very new to linux and some help in how I should actually go about running games on linux in the first place. I do not want to just install steam because it has closed source elements and being more privacy conscious now, I’m not sure I want to. Though I am aware I can use the proton layer to enable gaming support which I believe is fully open source. For my purposes lutris sounds like it may be the route to go. Thoughts on this welcome.
As a side note, I am thinking of signing up to GOG as they, to me, seem like a better alternative to steam where I can actually own a DRM free copy of a game that I buy. On a pirating note I thought locating signed, hash checked GOG installers to be a good option for security for dipping my toe into pirating games on linux. I am much, much more comfortable with detecting and removing malware in a windows ecosystem. Linux, completely foreign. So I am trying to be careful.
Once I get fully set up I plan to buy the games I enjoy on GOG, I think that will be the path I can be most comfortable with. At the end of the day I will own a DRM free copy of the game itself. That is the best I can do where I cannot get it on physical media I think. I already do this for CD’s and DVD’s etc.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
OP, FYI: GPU passthrough isn’t riskless (OpSec-wise), unfortunately. This Hacker News thread contains pointers if you’d wish to read up on that.
I’d like to think that attackers making malicious pirate releases will focus on the large Windows userbase rather than the 1% of the 1% running them inside passthrough VMs but I get the point.
I just use a different user with no privileges to run any pirated or suspicious software.
Thank you, that is something to consider. What are your thoughts on sandboxing vs using a user with no privileges?
Flatpak sandboxing is weak. For truly untrusted software like pirated games I’d definitely go for a different user which in Linux provides a very strong isolation.
What about firejail vs a separate limited user account?
I’m not familiar with firejail, sorry. I guess that firejail (or regular containers with podman) can be ok for CLI tools which only need access to very specific paths, if any. But for graphical applications like games you probably have to grant a lot of access.
Using a separate user is simpler and it’s guaranteed that the software can only write to the home dir of the user (and other temp paths like /tmp that you don’t care). In case of problems, just wipe the home dir and you are good.
I’m running everything that is proprietary (Steam for example) on a second user that is a not an admin account. Heroic and the like are installed via Flatpak that is sandboxed. Sometimes games contain malware, even on Steam. If something goes badly wrong, I purge that second user.
Sounds like a good idea, thank you for the suggestion.
QubesOS? :D
First of all, don’t expose yourself to danger. Get your pirated games from reputable sources.
Most games only need a Steam emulator like Goldberg’s to run without license, and you can get clean steam files from cs.rin.ru. You don’t need VMs for this, it’s literally the original game.
If you need an actual crack, you can also look up on cs.rin.ru and try to gauge the reputation of the uploader. You can also check fitgirl or dodirepacks, they are both highly reliable. These are unlikely to have malware, but it’s not impossible.
If you want to use a vm because you still don’t trust the pirated game in question (reasonable), then there is no shortcut. Use the arch wiki to learn how to setup a VM with GPU passthrough, even if you don’t use arch it’s always a good place to get started.
You don’t need VMs for this, it’s literally the original game.
How can you validate that if you don’t have the original game to calculate and compare hashes?
You don’t. That’s why it must be reputable sources
Thank you for your reply, this sounds on track to what I am looking for.
Very interesting on the clean file + emulator route. Sounds like a similar line of thinking to my signed / hash checked GOG installer thoughts.
Regarding using a VM with a GPU passthrough, what software would you recommend for doing this with? I am very familiar with virtualbox and do prefer a GUI though I recognise I will probably have to adapt in order to get what I want.
Thanks again.
I forgot about the gog part. Yeah, you can also use those. There used to be a website that uploaded clean gog installers, but now all the download links are behind those sketchy filesharing services. Though, if you manage to get one, the binary should be signed by the developer. On windows I know you can check the signature by right-clicking on the file, on Linux I don’t remember because I haven’t needed it in a long time.
For the VM you need qemu/kvm. I suggest to use virt-manager which is just a graphical interface for qemu.
Thank you, your responses have been most helpful.
Yup, I used to check the signature / hash for GOG installers in windows. I’ll have to look into how to do it in linux.
I’ll look into qemu/kvm. Virt-manager rings a bell. Thanks, I’ll look into all of that.
Do you have any site recommendations for clean steam / gog files?
For steam I already told in the previous comment, cs.rin.ru. You need an account to access the clean files threads.
For gog unfortunately not anymore. Check the r/piracy megathread, see if you find something
Thank you for your response.
Apologies on missing that it was you that mentioned those sites, new to lemmy and viewing through the unread messages area where it only shows the current comment, not the thread. I am struggling to see something I can click to bring the message up in a thread so I can see the message flow.
Thank you for the clues, I shall disappear down a rabbithole some time following your breadcrumbs.
Btw, I just remembered.
You said that “if you could go to the store, buy a disc with the game, like in the good old days” you would prefer that over piracy.
I do encourage you to buy games on GoG (Good Old Games), download the installer, and burn it on a blue ray disk for you to keep.
I shall most likely be doing so. It is a means of owning the original install files for the game. From a privacy standpoint, still not as good as buying it in a shop with cash but it is most certainly a step in the right direction. There was a time when I pirated simply because I wanted to try things out for free when demos became less popular. Then it led to why bother buying it now. However, as I have matured I am happy, moreover I want to pay for something I have tried and enjoyed to support the creator so long as I have ownership and can do with it what I like. I do not want to support the conditional ownership systems that are developing, telling me how I may use something that I have purchased. Or that I do not truly own it such as is the case with most digital “purchases”.
You seem very relatable in several areas I have identified, like minded and able to comprehend my point of view. Able to explain without condescension. I am new to socialising online (in general really, trying to step out of my shell). I found the fediverse on my travels to escape big tech, see my original post here. If you do not mind sharing your thoughts, where would you recommend looking for someone socially awkward, very concerned over privacy but not to the point where that becomes the central point of discussion as it can be a little triggering, a place to discuss things intellectually yet open and respectfully of one another?
I am just curious to hear your thoughts on this point. Thanks.
Regarding using a VM with a GPU passthrough, what software would you recommend for doing this with?
KVM Passthrough, e.g. with https://looking-glass.io/
However, it’s way too much hassle. Just run Steam in a sandbox, e.g. Firejail.
Is there anything for linux with the ease of gui setup that comes with virtualbox, that supports gpu passthrough. Wherever I look there is a need to dive into the terminal and use multiple applications to get things running.
Thanks.
This is the best guide you can find.
Thank you, I shall check that out.
You can use Gnome Boxes or virt-manager, but in the end you’ll still be fiddling with config files, as GPU pass-through is not really easy to do, or recommended in this case.
It’s only worth the hassle if you need Windows to play some games, and even then will Kernel-level anticheat still ban you in online games.
It’s much less hassle to use Firejail (or similar). That one just needs a few lines of config and already has predefined configs for Steam etc., however you might need to tweak them a bit if you store games and savegames somewhere else than your homedir.
Thanks for the reply. I have been progressing down the virt-manager route as it seems to come up a lot when talking about pass-through. Firejail is definetly on my list to research. Thank you.
you can with GPU passthrough. not a simple process though, and not all hardware supports it.
plus you need a dedicated gpu for the VM.
It’s actually possible to do it with a single gpu but it’s trickier than if you had two. You can use libvirt hooks to stop all graphical processes (and log your gui session out), unload the kernel drivers for the gpu, and start the VM with the now unused primary gpu. Then do the reverse when the VM stops and you’re back to your login screen.
Pain in the ass, fickle as hell, most GPUs fuck up the Reset, in the end it is barely more practical than a dual boot.
sounds unpractical af
On machines with just one gpu it’s either that or no passthrough tbf
I set it all up as an automated step before a VM named “win” boots, and I can just start the vm and these steps happen on their own
oh for sure. upside is maybe it’s an easier and better documented process now a few years later from my last attempt.
might be worth it for the annoying anticheat games.
If piratded games have malicious files its most likely for windows users, you can install repacks on Linux very easily though.
I had trouble with fitgirl repacks the last couple of times I tried
What problems?
When you say repacks, are these repacks of files designed to be used in windows with pre-installed cracks etc or is it more specifically a repack designed to be run under linux?
tldr: use firejail. I already answered in your other thread: https://feddit.org/comment/13927222
You know you can cross-post so it shows up as cross-posted in other communities? You just need to hit that “copy” button once you posted the first one.
I’d have answered here instead of !piracy if I had seen that it’s a crosspost.
Thanks, I’ll look into crossposting for going forwards.
I’ll check out firejail. Thanks for the recommendation.
So I’m not condoning or condeming.
I would say you can dual boot linux - that is have TWO entirely separate Linux installs on your PC. Have one be your main Linux desktop, and have a separate partition which you boot into to use for riskier stuff. Just ensure it has no access at all to your other drive and be careful mouting peripherals like USB drives. That way you can get full native experience with your PC, without having to sacrifice performance for a VM set up. I would also set up a VPN to run at all times within that 2nd Linux install, with kill switch for the network if it disconnects.
This is a thought, thank you for your suggestion.
In defence of my pirating, it is more complicated that just getting stuff for free. See this comment.
Sure, there was a time I’d pirate just because I could, now I have matured there are real reasons and ethical dilemmas. The above comment explains things pretty well though.
If mulvad didn’t take away the ability to just dump your VPN in your router via wiregaurd I would say do that over running the VPN on the system. Use an openwrt capable router and google a good saftey guide.
You keep talking about “safely” running these programs. What is the threat that you are trying to protect yourself against? Are you concerned that your unofficial copy of the program may contain malware, are you worried that the copyright owners may try to find you (via IP address perhaps?) and prosecute, or what.
My primary concern is malware.
im not a linux expert but isnt the whole thing with linux that there isnt really malware for it because no one bothers to make any?
but with regards to games like other posters said check cs.rin.ru for the games and either use the goldberg method or just get the games pre-installed/cracked and run them through Lutris/Heroic
alternatively you can also download linux versions, theres a couple of people who crack linux games, one of them is john_cena and another whose name i forget is on torrrminator. ive downloaded a couple games from torrminator and had no issues with them
but of course ymmv and this may not be entirely up your alley with regards to the privacy etc concerns
The systems that allow windows games to run on linux also allow for windows malware to run on linux. That is the threat I am trying to avoid.
Running pirated games in the manner you are describing is risky as a result, even on linux.
I shall look into your other suggestions though, thank you for taking the time.
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Quit thinking as a windows user now you are on Linux.
You running a pirated game with proton? Or looking to run windows inside Linux?
In any case run the game offline, disconnect the PC from internet and you should be safe.
What? It’s an on line game? It’s a game that need internet access to run? Then what are you complaining about? There is nothing you can do to be “safe”.
Anyway running a windows game on linux with wine or proton should be safe enough from most of the possible threats (environment is too different). Running in a VM would be a serious hit on performances even if you use qemu+KVM (forget about virtual box) with all drivers set to passtrough and you give up your video card on Linux and pass it to windows
At that point, you are again at risk because e you are again running windows …
Define your threat at least. That would make a response easier
My guess you are overthinking stuff.
Linux isn’t inherently safer than Windows when running untrusted binaries, i.e. games.
There is a real possibility of user data being extracted or a virus infecting a WINE prefix. If you get a crypto trojan it doesn’t matter if you’re cool and on Linux, they still can encrypt all your precious family photos.
Please do not hand out potentially dangerous advice like “you should be safe”. Sure, the architecture of Linux distributions make it harder for criminals to do things, but you’re certainly not safe running untrusted binaries, even though Steam does some security analysis before games can be uploaded, and malware games are usually reported quickly.
while the risk you mention is very real and we should not be too complacent with it, i haven’t seen any attack targeting linux users from pirated games in the wild.
hell, scene releases from trusted sources are usually slightly safer than the original game because of removed DRM phone-home bullshit.
plus wine and flatpak are enough to fuck with malware targeting only windows if you don’t keep all permissions enabled, which you shouldn’t.
Wine doesn’t sandbox things though.
i know, but it may be different enough to break stuff.
Doesn’t wine expose your system disk as disk Z to programs? Any info stealer can potentially find your
.mozillaor.chromiumdirectory and upload it to some server.The point is, none of this is a security layer. The risk is probably low, but it should be properly understood and mitigated - which OP is trying to do.
Exactly my thoughts. If the credential stealer is coded halfway competently, it doesn’t matter if the creds lay on C: or Z:
After all, WINE is trying to emulate Windows with all its quirks and features, which will also mean that it runs Windows viruses perfectly fine. Heck, I think WINE can probably run Windows viruses better than Windows itself.
that’s where a system like flatpak comes in. you shouldn’t have easy rw access to you entire home directory.
i know flatpak has holes but if that complicates malware made for windows, that’d be it for now.
not saying the risk doesn’t exist though. maybe firejail or something would be more complete security.
I would like to forget about windows, everything linux. So the VM would be linux using proton, my thought is that a vm isolates stuff inside it from the host os, thus allowing you to run malware inside the sandbox. Yes there is still a risk malware can get out, but far less of a threat than just running it in the host os. So, like I can do with applications and fully utilise the CPU, I’d like to do the same for the GPU.
I have heard that malware designed for windows can still run under linux due to the way wine / proton works. So I thought using a VM could offer a solution, or at least a step in the right direction.
What is an online game? Everything at the moment, when pirating, I am in control. Need no internet connection, no account, just execute and run like when I used to buy a game on a CD. That is why I am looking at GOG.
Can you recommend any tutorial videos for qemu and kvm setup and usage for linux?
My threat? I want to take precautions from installing malware on the linux system when running pirated games. Like on windows, running pirated applications in a vm. But I’d like to do it with games.
the VM would be linux using proton
Proton is not a VM, it’s a translation layer for Windows API calls based on WINE.
Virtualisation (VMs), sandboxing and API translation layers are fundamentally different in both scope and application.
Proton does not give you any additional security, since Security By Obscurity is a broken concept.
I have heard that malware designed for windows can still run under linux due to the way wine / proton works.
This is correct.
Ah I did mean that the VM would be using proton inside. i.e. proton would be running in the guest os. I think it was my bad wording.
Thanks for confirming what I’d heard about wine / proton not being the same as virtualisation when it comes to preventing malware from running just because it is now on linux. I am also fully aware that just because something is inside a vm, does not mean malware cannot escape. I am just trying to make it less likely.
You shouldn’t need a full VM running Proton. I’d rather use sonething more lightweight, i.e. sandboxing.
Most likely Windows games which are malicious don’t have a way to break out of Linux containment, so if you run all games as a different user with no access to your other files or inside a sandbox, there should be a negligible risk.
The chance of a Windows malware using Linux sandbox exploits is very very very small.
Firejail is definitely something I’ll be looking into on the sandboxing front as it may be the better solution from the sounds of it. How does a sandbox compare to running in a VM? Technically speaking, is the VM safer? Though I appreciate the difference in this scenario may be very small.
The VM is definitely safer by an order of magnitude, because you can use hardware CPU features to guard address areas and have separate Kernels for your games and other OS. However, look at this recent security hole: https://lemmy.zip/post/67733533
Security is never absolute, it’s always relative. It’s also never done, as with time any system can become hacked. Security is both a process and a consideration.
Your threat model is that you download malware which is either written for Windows or has some nasty Linux exploits baked in (as Steam Decks are popular now aswell). I doubt if most people run games without sandboxes that they try to get out of a user namespace with a privilege escalation. Sandboxing in Linux is done with Kernel level separation, and very secure.
Hackers who want to get your data who use a 0day sandbox breaking exploit really deserve your data. If they can do this they’re basically the elite of hackers. Most stuff will be simple crypto trojans and credential stealers, focused at Windows, which are both stopped dead in their tracks by sandboxing.
Let’s say you get 99.9% safety against your specific threat model with sandboxing. If you have 1000 exploits, one might be able to break it, good luck finding 1000 exploits in pirated games even if you try to collect them. And with VMs you might have 99.99% safety but so much less performance and so much more hassle it’s not worth it.
There are lower hanging fruits to hack you at that point. In reality there might be an even lower likelyhood of Windows games breaking out of a sandbox or VM on Linux. I have never even read about something like that happening once.
