There was (is?) definitely something missing with xmpp though, since it did not (from my point of view anyway) take off.
I feel like fragmentation is also an issue with xmpp with tons of client implementing their own subset of the xep and none of them being really appealing to non tech-savy people.
Also the big issue is that people don’t understand the federation thing, element chose to use the matrix.org server by default and that is an issue, make this instance way too big but it also made onboarding way easier for some people.
I don’t know if there ever was a similar initiative with xmpp? Again we could argue it’s not a good solution, but does the good solution really exist, other than wishing for people to understand what’s really good for them and hoping they make the right choice?
I would gladly switch back to xmpp if it could be at least as useful to me as matrix, but sadly that’s not the case.
I don’t know if there ever was a similar initiative with xmpp?
Google used to run a standard compliant XMPP server with easily 10-100 times as many users as matrix.org, and that turned out to be really bad for the open XMPP federation after they decided to break federation for business reasons. The same is likely if not inevitable with Element since they are a for-profit company with lots of Venture Capital investment.
Not that it had the same impact, but WhatsApp is also based on XMPP and for a while you could use a standard XMPP client with a small authentication modification. Similarly, they chose never to federate in favour of a walled garden. It’s a disappointing bastardisation of an open standard.
I think protocols are great starting blocks but people, outside of techies, don’t care about protocols as long as they work and support features they want. You need to be first to the punch on a great overall product with a UX anyone could use. XMPP had Pidgin and Jitsi, neither of which any of my non-techie friends would even touch.
It’s a fine protocol, but it didn’t deliver anything more than a protocol so let for-profit organisations decide how it’s actually used. There are some nice looking clients now but the battle was lost a decade ago.
There was (is?) definitely something missing with xmpp though, since it did not (from my point of view anyway) take off.
I feel like fragmentation is also an issue with xmpp with tons of client implementing their own subset of the xep and none of them being really appealing to non tech-savy people.
Also the big issue is that people don’t understand the federation thing, element chose to use the matrix.org server by default and that is an issue, make this instance way too big but it also made onboarding way easier for some people.
I don’t know if there ever was a similar initiative with xmpp? Again we could argue it’s not a good solution, but does the good solution really exist, other than wishing for people to understand what’s really good for them and hoping they make the right choice?
I would gladly switch back to xmpp if it could be at least as useful to me as matrix, but sadly that’s not the case.
Google used to run a standard compliant XMPP server with easily 10-100 times as many users as matrix.org, and that turned out to be really bad for the open XMPP federation after they decided to break federation for business reasons. The same is likely if not inevitable with Element since they are a for-profit company with lots of Venture Capital investment.
Not that it had the same impact, but WhatsApp is also based on XMPP and for a while you could use a standard XMPP client with a small authentication modification. Similarly, they chose never to federate in favour of a walled garden. It’s a disappointing bastardisation of an open standard.
I think protocols are great starting blocks but people, outside of techies, don’t care about protocols as long as they work and support features they want. You need to be first to the punch on a great overall product with a UX anyone could use. XMPP had Pidgin and Jitsi, neither of which any of my non-techie friends would even touch.
It’s a fine protocol, but it didn’t deliver anything more than a protocol so let for-profit organisations decide how it’s actually used. There are some nice looking clients now but the battle was lost a decade ago.
What is dead can never die :) XMPP works fine and I think it still has quite some future.
agreed, xmpp is quick and simple. I love matrix but i prefer xmpp for quick texting